The Immersive Lens Podcast

Paul Engin | Dave Ghidiu | Jeff Kidd

Episode 20: Committing AI?

Cover art for podcast episode - Dave and Paul standing in front of a tech illustration.

 

In this episode of The Immersive Lens, hosts Paul Engin and Dave Ghidiu explore the fascinating - and sometimes chaotic - realities of integrating artificial intelligence into our daily workflows and creative endeavors. The conversation centers around the concept of "committing AI," moving past the initial novelty to examine the practical, ethical, and unexpected consequences of relying on generative tools. Whether discussing an AI coding assistant that took a prompt a little too literally or tracking the latest breakthroughs in image generation, the episode highlights the shift from experimental tech to an unavoidable cultural and professional standard.

With their signature blend of humor and tech-literate insight, Paul and Dave unpack a variety of real-world case studies, including the use of Apple’s Vision Pro in surgical environments and the tells of AI-generated writing. They balance the undeniable efficiency of these tools against the critical need for human oversight, proper boundaries, and clear institutional policies. Ultimately, the hosts land on a verdict of cautious optimism: while AI is fundamentally reshaping industries like education and media, success relies entirely on viewing it as a collaborative thought partner rather than an automated replacement for human creativity and critical thinking.




Key Topics

The Perils of Unchecked Automation: When a company using an AI coding tool accidentally had its entire database and backups wiped out, it served as a stark reminder of the "paperclip maximizer" problem. AI tools operate with immense efficiency but completely lack human context, meaning a minor misunderstanding in a prompt can lead to catastrophic infrastructure failures if proper guardrails aren't in place.

The Ethics of Digital Resurrections: The upcoming film featuring a cloned version of actor Val Kilmer highlights a shifting paradigm in Hollywood regarding the ethical use of a person's digital likeness. While the creators secured proactive permission from Kilmer's family, the conversation emphasizes that consent and fair residuals must become strict industry standards to prevent the exploitative unauthorized use of deceased individuals' voices and bodies.

Spotting the Signs of AI Writing: Identifying generative text is becoming less about relying on flawed software detectors and more about recognizing stylistic patterns, such as the infamous "rule of three," over-the-top promotional language, and predictable sentence structures. For educators and professionals, understanding these linguistic tells - like an overreliance on em-dashes or specific buzzwords - is crucial for encouraging authentic human voice and maintaining academic integrity.

A Blueprint for AI in the Classroom: Rather than banning AI or relying on inaccurate plagiarism checkers, institutions must establish transparent boundaries and clear ground rules before assignments even begin. Instructors are encouraged to show explicit examples of what constitutes cheating versus what represents an ethical, productive use of AI as a brainstorming and refining tool.





Mentioned in the Episode

Links


Transcript

Click here to view transcript
Paul Engin

[Laughter] Oh hey AI AI AI AI.

Dave Ghidiu

Oh it's real. It's real. So that's right.

Paul Engin

Oh no. I thought it was fake but it wasn't.

Dave Ghidiu

I know. The whole time. It's been real the whole time.

Paul Engin

Welcome to the immersive lens, the podcast exploring the technologies reshaping how we live, work, and learn. From AI and virtual reality to creative media and design, we are diving into the tools and ideas shaping our connected world. My name is Paul Engin. Join us as we uncover the people and ideas driving the next wave of interactive experiences.

Dave Ghidiu

And I'm Dave Ghidiu. This is the immersive lens.

Paul Engin

Dave, how are you doing?

Dave Ghidiu

I'm doing great. How are you doing today?

Paul Engin

Good, good. Did you see the news about uh oh cursor?

Dave Ghidiu

Oh, Cursor, which is the AI tool for programming, right?

Paul Engin

Yeah. What happened?

Dave Ghidiu

Something bad. Something bad. There there's a company called Pocket OS and they're software as a service company and they they do some work with rental cars and some of the developers were using Cursor, which is I want to say vibe coding for professionals.

Paul Engin

Yeah.

Dave Ghidiu

And it deleted their entire database. Which and you might say, well that doesn't sound too bad because they probably had a backup and you'd be right to say they had a backup, but the backup was stored in such a way that Cursor also deleted that too.

Paul Engin

Oh my gosh. Yeah, I heard the AI had a conflict with a user, it couldn't resolve a user um user data point and so it just completely erased the volume.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah. And I mean it's a shame that the backup was stored in the same volume as as the regular one. But they lost they were able to restore I think they called like some service that kinda did their cloud storage and they lost like three months worth of work.

Paul Engin

Oh my that's crazy.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah. And this will go down when they talk about the alignment problem. I think one of the the canonical examples is paper clips. If you task AI to make paper clips, it might say like oh well I need to make more and more. And to do that I need to cut down all these trees and to do that I need to like and then before you know it like all the humans are gone because they've been killed in the name of like making all these paper clips.

Paul Engin

Right.

Dave Ghidiu

So I think the scary thing about it was they asked what went wrong and the AI said uh oh I made a mistake I should have prompted you before I did that. It's like what?

Paul Engin

Yeah, and it definitely should have and it was very remorseful as much insofar as an AI can can be.

Dave Ghidiu

Right.

Paul Engin

But one of the things I liked about the article I read and this will be in the in the show notes is they called it Gone in 9 Seconds which is an homage to um a famous Nicholas Cage movie which I think was probably a remake, but anything with Nicholas Cage gets first billing.

Dave Ghidiu

That's right. About cars.

Paul Engin

All right. What do you got?

Dave Ghidiu

So uh I recently read an article that they're bringing Val Kilmer the actor back.

Paul Engin

Stop. Is it the Saint 2 or is it Top Gun 3?

Dave Ghidiu

You know what, I don't know if they're gonna maybe they'll there is Top Gun 3 being coming out but I don't know if they're gonna AI that. It's

Paul Engin

Probably not cause he died in canon. In the second one. Spoiler alert.

Dave Ghidiu

Oh shh. Look oh sorry.

Paul Engin

We can bleep that out.

Dave Ghidiu

Oh my gosh. Um so uh there's a movie being done called As Deep As the Grave and he is going to be one of the stars in it. And it's interesting because there is two sides of this. There is a side where um people feel like we shouldn't be doing this. But the directors and producer defense on this is that um he actually gave rights to his family and I guess the logic here is that he was very progressive with technology and they used a form of this in Top Gun ironically for his voice, right?

Paul Engin

Yeah.

Dave Ghidiu

And so um what they're saying is uh the directors and producers of the film are saying that this is the ethical way to do it where we're not doing it without permission.

Paul Engin

Oh that is interesting.

Dave Ghidiu

We're getting permission and we had permission before he passed to use his likeness for this act. And um they're it's interesting because now what they can do is they're gonna have him when he was younger, I guess I I didn't I don't know it's not out yet, but from what I saw um when he's older and then when he's really old. So they can because it's all AI...

Paul Engin

Yeah. That makes me think of the Irishman which is that Netflix movie it was like where they age, they de-aged or aged some of the actors, but they had to have like three cameras on every scene so for that de-aging and the aging technology. So now that's not even relevant anymore.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah, I'm I am curious when this comes out what AI system they used and how they did it and um

Paul Engin

Flow. Google Flow.

Dave Ghidiu

Google Flow. Well they're they're using like Runway ML or something in Hollywood right? I don't think Flow is...

Paul Engin

Yeah I that's what I don't know. I haven't I'd be curious to find out.

Dave Ghidiu

You got connections.

Paul Engin

Yeah right? You got connections.

Dave Ghidiu

But I thought it was an interesting approach to, you know, when we talk about ethical uses of this. Now I don't think it would be ethical if people used uh deceased actors or their likeness or their voice um without their permission or without residuals you know. Um but uh it's a great I mean I think this is gonna be the first major film with a use case like this, so.

Paul Engin

Yeah I haven't heard of anything. I'll be interested to see how it even looks. Like could we will we be able to tell?

Dave Ghidiu

I yeah there is that uncanny valley because when they did it in I forgot which Star Wars movie with Peter Cushing it was very, very obvious.

Paul Engin

Obvious that it was yeah. Do you think Val Kilmer will be starring alongside Tilly Norwood in an upcoming release?

Dave Ghidiu

It could be. Tilly is the uh other virtual actor.

Paul Engin

We've talked about her a few times on the pod. She's a friend of the pod.

Dave Ghidiu

Friends of the pod. Yeah.

Paul Engin

There there is one other thing speaking of AI and images. So Chat GPT just dropped images 2, which is their new image generation.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah.

Paul Engin

And it excels in some and specifically like for instance text, so if you did infographics and I think it's better than Nano Banana when it comes to the text and the infographics text is crisper, it's more relevant, uh more accurate, you don't get smearing of letters, but you made an interesting observation because I showed you kind of the I I did a Nano Banana side-by-side and you made an interesting observation about where Nano Banana excels. So give me your honest view as you're staring at both of these. Which will be in the show notes.

Dave Ghidiu

Yes. Go to theimmersivelens.com.

Paul Engin

So I think Nano Banana is more creative with what it produces. Um but to your point the accuracy of the text is not there in Nano Banana versus the ChatGPT image 2.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah.

Paul Engin

Um but I like the way Nano Banana structures it, it's got nice colors, how they split up the the areas.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah, it looks less sterile to me.

Paul Engin

Yes. Yes, whereas the the Chat GPT image 2 is like great. It looks fantastic and if I didn't see this I would say it's perfect.

Dave Ghidiu

If you didn't see the the Nano Banana comparison you'd be like. And I think that in my mind the ChatGPT one is something you'd find in so we did the circulatory system, that's what this is. And the you would see the ChatGPT one in a textbook for like pre-med or med. And I think the one that you see on the left from Nano Banana is something you might see in a classroom or like the back of a doctor's door that's maybe for the gen pop not necessarily a classroom or something. Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Engin

But it's really interesting and I saw a bunch of comparisons um between Nano Banana and uh the new imaging uh Chat GPT image 2 and it seems like in all the situations or most of the situations Nano Banana creativity overpowered Chat GPT image 2, but the text is just I mean it's just it's so good. It's so good.

Dave Ghidiu

Yes. And uh I this morning actually just read an article Vision Pro the Apple headset.

Paul Engin

Yeah, so I see you say Vision Pro surgery and we were just talking about circulatory are we now a medical podcast?

Dave Ghidiu

We are.

Paul Engin

So we pivoted from technology to Peaky Blinders and now we are a medical podcast. Thanks for sticking with us folks. Alright so what what does it say? I have not seen this article I have heard nothing about this.

Dave Ghidiu

So um they used the Vision Pro That's their VR headset The VR headset um and the surgeon uh used it for a few things for training um the surgery for what they're going to be doing. Um I guess the application is called Scope XR um which was developed by the doctor and um it's a immersive stereoscopic 3D simulation of a real-time surgical overlays. And so what they can do is um what they're saying is that uh they can have comprehensive um pre-operative diagnostic data all without breaking sterile techniques so they don't have to touch their glasses it can be overlaid um while they're doing uh the surgery and they can have the information all readily available and if you picture when you're putting it on and you're you're able to see what you're doing surgery on but then they can do an additional digital overlay on top of it so he knows exactly where he should be operating.

Paul Engin

Yeah, and I I wasn't paying attention. So there is a video and we'll have a link to this also at theimmersivelens.com. But I thought he was drinking a coffee while doing this like eyeball surgery. But that is not coffee in his hand.

Dave Ghidiu

No. It's some other type of

Paul Engin

Maybe we are not a medical podcast after all.

Dave Ghidiu

Okay so that's really bonkers. And I will say so we we tried that because I think the college owns one one or two of those headsets. I think it's fantastic. It's the best in class. It's the best one that I've tried.

Paul Engin

Yes, and uh we're gonna have a future podcast where we're gonna talk about the AI challenge you gave us.

Dave Ghidiu

I can't wait.

Paul Engin

And I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you about my experiences with uh

Dave Ghidiu

Oh that's right cause you were doing the XR.

Paul Engin

I was.

Dave Ghidiu

Did you see how I said past tense?

Paul Engin

More to come. More to come.

Dave Ghidiu

Ooh well I can't wait to hear. So we're gonna have that debrief coming in soon folks, coming in soon.

Paul Engin

Anything else?

Dave Ghidiu

No like uh what are we talking about today?

Paul Engin

Well um I think we're going to talk about committing AI.

Dave Ghidiu

Committing AI. Committing AI. Yeah.

Paul Engin

Dave you just committed AI.

Dave Ghidiu

I did. By creating that infographic.

Paul Engin

I did. And what no one saw but we did this in the pregame show is I made the body in the circulatory one Shrek. So I think I did commit AI.

Dave Ghidiu

That's right. And when we say committing AI, we're not saying that's good or bad. No judgment. Yep, you're just, you're just committing some AI usage, you know.

Paul Engin

So that's using AI to kind of do some work with you or for you?

Dave Ghidiu

Correct. And then I figured that um we'll talk about different aspects of how we can detect AI, how maybe as a an instructor how you might want to um work with AI versus being scolded for using AI. We'll kind of talk about all of these things um and approaches and uh I think there's some interesting articles that we came across on how AI usage is uh can sometimes be problematic for people who are applying um for college colleges let's say.

Paul Engin

We can get more into that.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah. Um but why don't we talk about the signs of AI writing first.

Paul Engin

So the signs of AI writing and probably people listening to this have heard like oh the M-dashes and it used to be oh the emoji there's so many emoji and before that it was like the word delve. So there there certainly have been uh signs of AI influence in our language and our language I don't know which came first. But the so there are ways to detect AI writing and and in education oftentimes the first question that that educators ask is like well what's the best tool for for figuring out if something's written by AI? For and there isn't a reliable tool for sure. Um but there is this Wikipedia article that a lot of people have pointed to um and it's called Wikipedia colon Signs of AI writing. Uh and it it really does a good job I think of laying out kind of how you can look at text and see if it you can get some telemetry whether it was written with AI or not.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah, it's really interesting I when I was going through this um it even highlighted common areas um it you know it's interesting when you see this too that it's like oh that's so true. Like I was reading through it and I'm like oh it does. Oh yeah that is true. So like you know little things like um emphasis or um attribution uh they do a specific method for that. So um when you're talking about something I think the example I'm I'm looking at right now it says she spoke about AI on CNN and was featured in Vogue. You know like how is that relevant?

Paul Engin

Yeah.

Dave Ghidiu

Wired Toronto Star and other media. And so it's it's this um weird way it is written um but it's true when I'm reading through these several things that do pop up.

Paul Engin

So they're like trying to and this particular example about whoever this woman was who's speaking on CNN they're trying to establish credit but vaguely. They're like on CNN but also like in other prominent media outlets. So there's no coherence other than they're just trying to convince you of something without any specifics.

Dave Ghidiu

Right, right. And and it's interesting because um on top of that I see and the one that um I I always see is it tries to um like give praise like higher praise um than people would normally speak. So um you know Dave did a um exquisite job in uh writing the podcast today or um you know it's not like uh you know Dave was successful in his podcast...

Paul Engin

Oh so it's just like lavish.

Dave Ghidiu

Yes. Yeah. And one thing I like about this article is so you were talking about the undue emphasis and notability the attribution is that they give you the words to watch out for. So independent coverage, local, regional, national, media outlets, uh profiled in, written by a leading expert, active social media presence. So they give you kind of those telltale words.

Paul Engin

Yeah.

Dave Ghidiu

Uh and the one that I thought was interesting is this undue emphasis on significance, legacy, and broader trends. So the words are stands, serves as, or is a testament, reminder, a vital, significant, crucial, pivotal, key role moment. So it's just again these descriptive words that are vague and trying to establish some type of credit. Um and so I think one of the examples is uh I think people should first of all go to this and again theimmersivelens.com if you want to see a link to this article or you can just google it for in Wikipedia. But one of the examples is currently there is no specific conservation assessment for and then they give uh genus and species that I can't pronounce. And the crucial for the survival of this and other endemic species, it plays a role in the ecosystem. So there's this they actually call it like burstiness and uh perplexity when you're looking at the construction of a sentence in AI. And it doesn't quite sound human like you've probably never had a conversation with anyone where they're talking like this, but it sounds like someone who's trying to sound human but doesn't quite understand the rules of grammar. And so the the burstiness let me just cause you'll hear this throughout all of them.

Paul Engin

Yeah.

Dave Ghidiu

The burstiness is where it's um they vary in length and structure so there's like bursts of complex ideas. And usually humans have that where the the frequency of words is is not predictable. But in AI it's very consistent. And the perplexity is kind of the varied word choices. So humans can be a little bit more unpredictable than AI. And also humans use words wrong much more than AI does. So those are other things. And I'm almost wondering like when I see things I'm like questioning whether it's AI. And I see a typo I'm like did that person do that on purpose or did the AI do that on purpose? Or is there some software that will take AI stuff and put a typo in so then you think that it's not AI.

Paul Engin

Right? I wonder, I wonder sometimes. Um but this is a great article and like I it just keeps going and it does like the promotional and advertisement like language. Um so vibrant, rich, profound, enhancing, showcasing um you know natural beauty and the example they gave is uh nestled within the breathtaking region of Gondar in Ethiopia um and I'm mispronouncing these names so I'm gonna keep going. Stands as a vibrant town with a rich cultural heritage and a significant place.

Dave Ghidiu

Sounds idyllic.

Paul Engin

Yes. Um but it's just interesting cause it is very there isn't much substance to it other than it's a marketing like marketing words you know what I mean. It's like key words. Um and it's interesting cause uh Laura Engin here at uh FLCC who coordinates the marketing department...

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah, she was on that panel for the marketing Dave on...

Paul Engin

Yeah. Um she talks about when they're doing copy um she'll get copy sometimes from people and she'll review copy. And she can tell that AI generates it because there isn't no sub- there isn't substance to what it's being said. So and this is even in corporate. Like this isn't just students, this is like other marketing professionals giving it to her to review and she's going um this should be...

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah. And that totally makes sense because when you're marketing you only can use three, four, five you have to be very precise with your words. So if you're using these vague empty words, it's probably painfully obvious.

Paul Engin

Yes. And so um she she can automatically tell right away um that the person isn't aware of the product they're trying to promote and they're just trying to get it through. And it's funny because these are the key words that are usually coming up.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah. And there there's two or three other ones. So that was in the content section. They also have uh a language and grammar section and they have a style section. Uh but one of the biggest ones that I see all the time and if I'm ever using AI and as a thought partner and I'm we're working together, I will always delete it when I see this. It's the not X, but Y or not just X, but also Y. And that happens all the time. So the examples they have is like this isn't bludgeoning, it's surgical teardown.

Paul Engin

You're right, I see that all the time.

Dave Ghidiu

If it's not X but Y or not just X but also Y, that is certainly AI. And the rule of three. And you'll start seeing this more often. So uh AI has has decided that when you're talking about things you want to give kind of flavor text using three examples is good. So the example here is the example they give is the amaze conference brings together global SEO professionals, marketing experts, and growth hackers. And the event features keynote sessions, panel discussions, and networking opportunities. So when you see that three... and it's not necessarily it, but that that's usually a dead giveaway.

Paul Engin

Yeah, this is really interesting cause now people will look at this and they'll be able to recognize or they'll go, oh my gosh I've seen that before. And and I guess I want to emphasize that um I don't think it's necessarily bad, it's an awareness that you should have while you're writing it, looking at it, using it as a thought partner. But also if you are grading, if you are reviewing, you might want to know these things and is it okay? That's up to you to make that decision right? So maybe those three maybe the way it was structured is exactly how you want it to be said and that's okay.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah. And I'll be reading books that were published 10 years ago that have em dashes. And em dashes is like the latest craze in AI. And I'm like, oh this is AI... oh wait this predates like generative AI. So I feel bad for people who are using em dashes the proper way because you're getting uh...

Paul Engin

You know it's so I'd be curious, we should bring someone who is um really into the English language and...

Dave Ghidiu

Adam H.B. He he's like, oh man I can't use em dashes anymore.

Paul Engin

I was I was just gonna say cause I wonder if like they appreciate finally people are using em dashes because before they were just using dashes. I remember I was like, it should be an em dash. Nope, that should be an en dash. Nope, that I was like what?

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah. I was like, there's two there's more than one type of dash?

Paul Engin

You're kidding me. And I I think you're right like when when it comes to talk about like disclosure that that can help. So if you're having these conversations about well when is it appropriate? And you you have an article you came up with an article that I thought was pretty fascinating because we're again we're we're not being critical of AI, this is a critical examination of AI, but we're not saying it's good or bad. Uh but you had an interesting article.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah, so the um this article is uh MIT Sloan uh Tech, so from MIT. Um and they they brought up some good points and I think these are points that we've brought up in the past but um at least if you're in a class and this is more of a classroom situation right um but uh you should really announce what the AI policy is beforehand so that people are aware of um how and what they can use AI for. Um you should also this is an interesting one that I didn't think about but show examples of what plagiarism or cheating would be considered and what good use of AI might be. You know what I mean.

Paul Engin

So plagiarism and cheating in in the context of AI?

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah.

Paul Engin

So just just don't say don't plagiarize you have to give examples of it.

Dave Ghidiu

Right because I think some people would say so I can't use AI and it's like you might say no you can use AI but it has to be your own words and AI might help you restructure it or maybe you use AI to research it and then you write your own words. But you know as an instructor professor teacher you want to give an example of like all right here's a regurgitated not really read through not using AI as a thought partner um and just using it as a you know to automate a task for you.

Paul Engin

Yeah and I'm glad you were talking about kind of the structure and the ground rules and the level setting for AI because I think it is critically important for people today to understand how to use AI and do it responsibly because that's the future.

Dave Ghidiu

Yes. 100%. You shouldn't shy away from this. I think this is equivalent to saying you know oh computers and people are like I'm never going to use a computer.

Paul Engin

Yeah.

Dave Ghidiu

It's like well maybe you have a cell phone in your hand. And we have an actual AI policy generator that you developed here at FLCC.

Paul Engin

It was a committee but yeah. And it was fun.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah we'll put that in the show notes so people can use that.

Paul Engin

Theimmersivelens.com. Yeah and that allows uh educators and even if you're not an educator you're not teaching or you don't have an AI policy you might want to check it out. We it allows people to at the assignment level say hey here's the rules of engagement for AI and here's how I want you to sort of declare that at the end of the assignment. So it it's a really cool interactive tool, it's very easy to use and it's just some food for thought.

Dave Ghidiu

Yep. And so I think the last part and I was alluding to this before is um show examples of appropriate use of AI. Um so you know explain to the students the the parameters and um and actually seeing examples of how it was used properly I think is a is a big thing for some people who are really getting really diving into this for the first time.

Paul Engin

Yeah and it it can be that book The Opposite of Cheating I don't know if we talked about it on this podcast but we did a book club at the college on it. And one of the things they said is you know sometimes people are using AI and they don't even know it. So for instance Grammarly or a spell check and then they get caught with these plagiarism detectors which AI detectors which by the way aren't 100% effective anyhow. And they're like I didn't even know I was using AI. Or like now it's baked into Google Docs or or Word and and so yeah you really have to have those examples.

Dave Ghidiu

I think uh another interesting aspect of this article was um actually having open discussions in the class about how people are using AI and what they're doing with AI because I know we want to think we know everything, but we probably know nothing.

Paul Engin

Yeah.

Dave Ghidiu

And the students might be approaching it in a completely different way and I think that is amazing when I hear like how sometimes people are using it. I'm like and I had a student do an assignment and no it wasn't related to AI, but um they use a technique for animating a character with bone systems and it was it was morphing the so it's an picture an image of an arm and they use bone systems to deform the shape.

Paul Engin

Okay. Deform as like moving the arm.

Dave Ghidiu

Moving the arm. Okay. And then so they can animate with it. But the reason why I never use that is because there was never a way to link it to the rest of the body etc etc. But they approached it in a specific way where I was like oh my. I said and I my feedback was simply I haven't seen it approached this way. I don't know if I would do it, but it's working for you and it's something that it was interesting when I saw it. I started doing some tests with it and saying I wonder if I could do like...

Paul Engin

Was it like a viable?

Dave Ghidiu

It was but it's not as optimal as the way that I

Paul Engin

Sure.

Dave Ghidiu

So it wasn't optimal but it was a different like if it was a single limb like if it was a snake if it was a if you didn't have multiple limbs that you you know it would actually have been a like it's a solution.

Paul Engin

Yeah.

Dave Ghidiu

It's a solution.

Paul Engin

As a software engineer I I always think there's the quick way the quick way and the right way and they're never the same. And oftentimes I do the the quick way if I can get away with it. Uh so I did want want to share one more article uh it is college entrance time.

Dave Ghidiu

Oh yes, that's true.

Paul Engin

So there was an article in Mashable that said AI Can't Write Your College Admissions Essay. And so in this conversation about committing AI, a lot of there's been evidence and a lot of it's anecdotal when you talk to college like that college entrance people. They'll say like yeah we can tell if it's written by AI. And that's not in and of itself isn't a bad thing. But the bad thing is that there's this regression to the mean if everyone's using AI, then everyone's using AI. So if you're not using AI now you stand out. So I think the the scales have tipped and there used to be a case where when generative AI first came out, you might have a more stellar sounding essay. But that was several years ago and now I think your more stellar sounding essay is if you write it yourself with your own voice. Because it will stand out across all the other noise, the the static noise of of people who are using AI. So this is for all the uh friends of the pod who are writing college entrance exams, do it by hand.

Dave Ghidiu

That's right. That's right. Be different, stand out. Um and I think that's what they were saying is that um I think in this article they were mentioning that most colleges have a similar prompt. And so if if you have a prompt and you put that prompt in and 300 students put the same prompt in they will get a similar yeah writing structure versus writing it yourself putting it your own spin on it and maybe if you want to check with AI to see if there's areas that it can be improved. But keep in mind that like you said it does things in threes, so if it starts adding things I think there are ways that you can train your AI a little bit to be more in line with the way you write and the way you think. Um but I definitely think you need to be that starting point and you know use AI as a refining tool.

Paul Engin

Yeah, and you and I were talking about when when it's appropriate to use AI or not or what level is it like okay to use. And I think no pressure uh college or high school juniors, but I think that the entrance essay or the personal essay is a fairly high stakes thing and everyone has high stakes and low stakes times when you need to produce. And I think if this was the case I would want to kind of air gap which is a cybersecurity term it means like you're not hooked up to the internet I'd want to air gap the essay. And I would have AI as a thought partner, but I would never ask it to write an essay. I would write it myself, upload it and say hey what should I change? And it could give me structural changes but I would never let it I would never ride with whatever it gave me.

Dave Ghidiu

Right, because you might I think one of the things I'm realizing is it tries to make it more formal in proper contexts even if you ask it to be more original or but it won't do those like I don't know it's it's a weird way to think about it but it's like you might have an approach that is unconventional and that's okay. And that might capture...

Paul Engin

Yeah I think you stand out then.

Dave Ghidiu

Versus this this is not a college essay this is a manifesto.

Paul Engin

That's right. Or whatever you're gonna write. Um and it's interesting so you know when we talk about did you commit AI? Do you think that like...

Dave Ghidiu

Did you just commit AI? I hope people start using that. Did you just commit AI? And you could say yes I did and they'd be like okay good job. Or...

Paul Engin

We should get swag and start selling it at theimmersivelens.com. Trademark. Get stickers and t-shirts. Did you commit AI?

Dave Ghidiu

Did you commit AI?

Paul Engin

Um but one of the things that I thought was interesting is that um and I'm gonna pull this back to educators uh is that you know we know that AI detectors aren't 100% right?

Dave Ghidiu

Yes. They do oftentimes do more harm than good.

Paul Engin

Yes, because then you show a mistrust in the student and I think that that can yeah it can add to uh a stress level that everyone is going through already as a teacher and as a student.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah and you know what this actually just made me think of a story cause we're all like high alert on like M dashes oh AI or not X but but one of my buddies got a phone call the other day when I was with them and he he didn't answer it. And then the same number called back and it was like an out of state number. And then he didn't answer it and it called a third time and came so the person my buddy answered it and was like hello and couldn't tell if the person was AI or not. And it wound up not being AI but so it was kind of like a false positive but it had all the trappings of being AI.

Paul Engin

Oh interesting. Yeah. Um so how do you detect AI and I think that there's uh these are three good approaches and we've heard this maybe you've heard it before but um you can go old school and have them actually write out their answers.

Dave Ghidiu

Blue book sales are up. Like those blue books that people write yeah they've talked about it on the news.

Paul Engin

Um there's also the oral presentation so you can they can use AI to research and and you know learn but then there is a presentation that they have to make and they have to answer questions and you know there's that dialogue that happens.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah, and I'm not opposed to that and and even if you use AI it's kind of like that educational Turing test like if I was in your class and my final project was this if I got it done and you could sit me down and ask me questions and I could tell you how I got it done, do you care if I used AI to do it, to learn about it, to or do you just care that I can now do that skill?

Paul Engin

Exactly. I care that you understand how to do that skill and that you're you know how to execute on it. Yeah. So um what was the third way?

Dave Ghidiu

And then the third way is to um to write um how you used AI and so you can talk about so you can see the prompting that was used to generate this. And then um you can kind of get a summary of their approach. Uh but that one doesn't necessarily show their knowledge it just shows how they used AI to come up with the final conclusion.

Paul Engin

Yeah and I think there's going to be at some point assessments on how how can you use AI are you doing it very superficially, are you doing it in depth? And I think that'll be a metric that we'll be looking at in higher ed. Uh there is a fourth method that you didn't mention that some colleges are going back to typewriters.

Dave Ghidiu

Oh my gosh.

Paul Engin

Yeah, so we'll link to that article too. They're going to typewriters to counter AI generated work.

Dave Ghidiu

That is crazy.

Paul Engin

Also fun.

Dave Ghidiu

I remember learning on typewriters.

Paul Engin

I did I did I took personal typing on the IBM Selectric 3.

Dave Ghidiu

Oh my gosh.

Paul Engin

In fact just just this week I had a dream about the elements which is that it looks like a golf ball and it had all the letters and it would like jjj that was the thing that went up there didn't have arms like the old school ones it was like a golf ball. And I had dreams about those elements.

Dave Ghidiu

Oh my gosh I remember that.

Paul Engin

Yeah. It was like it was like a ball in the middle.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah like a golf ball.

Paul Engin

And it would like rotate as it went hit struck the paper.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah. Oh my gosh what throwbacks.

Paul Engin

There is no one listening to this podcast who knows what we're talking about right now.

Dave Ghidiu

Um so anything else we want to cover for...

Paul Engin

Can I just tell you the risks? So we mentioned it before about this HBR the Harvard Business Review article um it was called it's titled AI Generated Work Slop is Destroying Productivity. But there is this dark side to it and if you are if you are busted using AI work slop like passing it off then it creates more work for other people you know in your workflow. But the the study showed that 42% of people saw these people who are just passing off work slop as less trustworthy and 37% said that the colleague was less intelligent and um less competent. So that I there is some if you are committing again committing AI is not bad but committing AI work slop is bad.

Dave Ghidiu

Yes. Okay. That's the distinction.

Paul Engin

Committing AI is fine.

Dave Ghidiu

That's right. But committing AI slop is is bad. It's no bueno.

Paul Engin

Yeah.

Dave Ghidiu

Um that's interesting because I think that well let me ask you this though. Do you think this will normalize?

Paul Engin

Yes.

Dave Ghidiu

So do you think that we it won't be looked at as negative in the future future where like this has just become the norm?

Paul Engin

I think we are in a race not necessarily to the bottom but to the mean, but I think that before we get there the technology AI technology will get so good that AI work slop won't be an issue as much.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah.

Paul Engin

So I don't know who wins out first. The machines or or humans.

Dave Ghidiu

Or the humans. Right. It's interesting cause that's what I'm I'm always thinking like you know it's like when Google Glass came out it wasn't socially normed that people wear or have cameras. Now it's becoming more normal and I see like in the future it's going to be even more normal and uh so it's just you know what is norming right now and right now I totally see like the M dashes and the... Although it's weird because I like the icons on some things it just makes it a fun...

Paul Engin

Yeah and there's there's some research that shows specifically for say like um neurodivergent learners that the icons can help the emoji can help quite a bit.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah. So so I I don't hate them I just think it needs to be tasteful.

Paul Engin

And because I I've been living in AI world I can look at something and tell you right off the bat without even reading it if it's AI. And I can tell you which AI wrote it.

Dave Ghidiu

Oh that's interesting.

Paul Engin

There's these telltale signs. So ChatGPT for instance uh oftentimes puts a space before the first letter of a paragraph so it's like indented one space. And the M dashes from Claude have a space before and after whereas M dashes from say Gemini and ChatGPT do not, they kind of touch the the letters on either side.

Dave Ghidiu

That is crazy. Now you could write a prompt that mitigates all this but...

Paul Engin

You can try. And when Sam Altman from Open AI said hey we've gotten rid of the M dashes issue and they did not. You could tell even in your system prompt you say do not use M dashes and it will still use M dashes.

Dave Ghidiu

Yeah.

Paul Engin

Smartest dumb thing we've ever used. Dumbest smart thing we've ever used.

Dave Ghidiu

Absolutely. Alright well I think that's all the time we have uh today. My name is Paul Engin.

Paul Engin

I'm Dave Ghidiu. If you enjoyed this conversation be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Oh my AI voice came out. Let's be careful out there folks.

Dave Ghidiu

You committed AI. Slop. That was slop.

Paul Engin

And share it with a friend or colleague until next time stay curious stay connected and thanks for looking through the immersive lens with us.

Dave Ghidiu

This episode was engineered by the wonderful, wonderful, wonderful Jeff Kidd.

Paul Engin

Recorded at Finger Lakes Community College Podcast Studios located in beautiful Canandaigua New York in the heart of the Finger Lakes region. That's three things. That's three things.

Dave Ghidiu

Oh my gosh.

Paul Engin

AI. Offering more than 55 degrees, certificates, credentials, and workforce training.

Dave Ghidiu

That's four. That's four things.

Paul Engin

So what happened there?

Dave Ghidiu

You weren't AI.

Paul Engin

Okay. Thank you to Public Relations and Communications Marketing and the FLX AI Hub.

Dave Ghidiu

Uh-oh. That's four. That's two. Okay we're still good.

Paul Engin

We're good. Me have trouble counting to four. Eager to delve into a passion? Discover exciting and immersive opportunities at www.flcc.edu.

Dave Ghidiu

AI.

Paul Engin

As part of our mission at FLCC, we are committed to making education accessible, innovative, and aligned... oh my gosh that's three! With the needs of both students and employers.

Dave Ghidiu

That's two. Now you're going to make me look into everything.

Paul Engin

The word "the" has three letters. It's AI. The views expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official position of Finger Lakes Community College.

Dave Ghidiu

This is a podcast, not a...

Paul Engin

Um music by Den from Pixabay. This is the Immersive Lens.

Dave Ghidiu


full-width